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	<title>Comments on: Why Product Mangers Need To Know That Cost Plus Pricing Is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!</title>
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		<title>By: Your Product Costs Too Damn Much, product manager, product marketing, product management</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Your Product Costs Too Damn Much, product manager, product marketing, product management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-808</guid>
		<description>[...] part of being a Product Manger that I hate the most is pricing. How am I expected to come up with just the right price for my product? Who am I Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Goldilocks: my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] part of being a Product Manger that I hate the most is pricing. How am I expected to come up with just the right price for my product? Who am I Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Goldilocks: my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Discover The Secret Ingredient To Turn Your Users Into Buyers. &#124; 7Wins.eu</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Discover The Secret Ingredient To Turn Your Users Into Buyers. &#124; 7Wins.eu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-711</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Product Mangers Need To Know That Cost Plus Pricing Is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Product Mangers Need To Know That Cost Plus Pricing Is Wrong, Wrong, Wrong! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Tough Times, Product Managers Consider Performance Based Pricing &#124; The Accidental Product Manager</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-664</link>
		<dc:creator>In Tough Times, Product Managers Consider Performance Based Pricing &#124; The Accidental Product Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-664</guid>
		<description>[...] do it! Pricing is a complex beast and if you start slashing, you&#8217;re not going to be able to raise it once things get better. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] do it! Pricing is a complex beast and if you start slashing, you&#8217;re not going to be able to raise it once things get better. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Bullied</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Bullied</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-241</guid>
		<description>CEO of the product is not an approach I take. I&#039;ve seen PMs think that way and then start to actually act like the CEO of the company, which usually ends with a pink slip.

I&#039;m part of a team building a product - there are less than 10 of us. The CEO of the company is the CEO of the product, not me.

A tough spot? Sorry, but hardly the case. I didn&#039;t think what I wrote indicated that I was having difficulty with these decisions - sorry if it came off that way.

We&#039;re making profit on the first deal we ever did - and will continue to do so on all others we do. We&#039;re not copping out  and taking a loss leader like so many start-ups do today. If we find we are losing deals based on price, we will tweak it and try again with the next prospect.

Iterate, research, tweak, go again. Nothing is right the first or second or third time out - you have to keep making it better, which is what we&#039;re doing.

Remember, PMs need to be strategic. But they can&#039;t keep their head up in the clouds too long / too often - or it will end in them forgetting to actually get something done instead of just thinking about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CEO of the product is not an approach I take. I&#8217;ve seen PMs think that way and then start to actually act like the CEO of the company, which usually ends with a pink slip.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m part of a team building a product &#8211; there are less than 10 of us. The CEO of the company is the CEO of the product, not me.</p>
<p>A tough spot? Sorry, but hardly the case. I didn&#8217;t think what I wrote indicated that I was having difficulty with these decisions &#8211; sorry if it came off that way.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re making profit on the first deal we ever did &#8211; and will continue to do so on all others we do. We&#8217;re not copping out  and taking a loss leader like so many start-ups do today. If we find we are losing deals based on price, we will tweak it and try again with the next prospect.</p>
<p>Iterate, research, tweak, go again. Nothing is right the first or second or third time out &#8211; you have to keep making it better, which is what we&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>Remember, PMs need to be strategic. But they can&#8217;t keep their head up in the clouds too long / too often &#8211; or it will end in them forgetting to actually get something done instead of just thinking about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jim Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jim Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-240</guid>
		<description>Roger: Thanks for reading! I like your thoughts on &quot;negative pricing&quot;. You bring up a good point that I didn&#039;t spend a lot of time on - there is no such thing as a &quot;fixed price&quot;. The market changes, your customers change, etc. Your prices should be viewed as a moment in time, they can be changed. If you spend the time to study the market and what&#039;s really going on, then you can dynamically adjust (yes, prices can go up!) your pricing so that you are maximizing profit AND maximizing sales.

It&#039;s not an easy job, but then again if it was then anyone could do it...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger: Thanks for reading! I like your thoughts on &#8220;negative pricing&#8221;. You bring up a good point that I didn&#8217;t spend a lot of time on &#8211; there is no such thing as a &#8220;fixed price&#8221;. The market changes, your customers change, etc. Your prices should be viewed as a moment in time, they can be changed. If you spend the time to study the market and what&#8217;s really going on, then you can dynamically adjust (yes, prices can go up!) your pricing so that you are maximizing profit AND maximizing sales.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not an easy job, but then again if it was then anyone could do it&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote in one of your comments that pricing should be done (or at least a first pass at it) before development of the product.  There needs to be some convergence of cost-based and value-based pricing to ensure that the product will be profitable and is actually worth developing.

I just wrote a blog entry about this convergence &lt;a href=&quot;http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2009/01/value-based-versus-cost-based-pricing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  In the past, I have written about &lt;a href=&quot;http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/07/negative-pricing.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;negative pricing&lt;/a&gt;, which I believe is the key to pricing a product based on value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote in one of your comments that pricing should be done (or at least a first pass at it) before development of the product.  There needs to be some convergence of cost-based and value-based pricing to ensure that the product will be profitable and is actually worth developing.</p>
<p>I just wrote a blog entry about this convergence <a href="http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2009/01/value-based-versus-cost-based-pricing.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/cauvin.blogspot.com/2009/01/value-based-versus-cost-based-pricing.html?referer=');">here</a>.  In the past, I have written about <a href="http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/07/negative-pricing.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/07/negative-pricing.html?referer=');">negative pricing</a>, which I believe is the key to pricing a product based on value.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jim Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jim Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-237</guid>
		<description>Adam: ouch! You&#039;ve got yourself in a tough spot. By the way, you&#039;re not crazy - your the CEO of your product with all of the glory and bumps &amp; bruises that comes along with that position!

I&#039;ve got a post coming up that will be published on January 30th that might help you out a bit here - it&#039;s on how to price a new product that nobody has seen before. This sounds a little like the spot that you find yourself in.

Sneak Peek: The trick turns out to be that you have to TELL your customer what they need to compare your product to. Make sure that it&#039;s something expensive and not something cheap so that your pricing will hold up.

Give it a read on the 30th and let me know if it helps out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: ouch! You&#8217;ve got yourself in a tough spot. By the way, you&#8217;re not crazy &#8211; your the CEO of your product with all of the glory and bumps &#038; bruises that comes along with that position!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a post coming up that will be published on January 30th that might help you out a bit here &#8211; it&#8217;s on how to price a new product that nobody has seen before. This sounds a little like the spot that you find yourself in.</p>
<p>Sneak Peek: The trick turns out to be that you have to TELL your customer what they need to compare your product to. Make sure that it&#8217;s something expensive and not something cheap so that your pricing will hold up.</p>
<p>Give it a read on the 30th and let me know if it helps out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Bullied</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Bullied</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-232</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree - there is definitely a gut-check factor I have used while doing cost-plus. It&#039;s not entirely based on the hard numbers.

Also, allow me to clarify the scenario in which I&#039;ve done this - a B2C product moving in to a B2B space by white-labeling the technology. Hell, we don&#039;t even know yet who are customers will end-up being on either side other than in broad strokes...

I know, I know - I should probably be banned from Product Management for admitting it. But all witch hunts aside, do you run with an idea and see how things pan out, fail, refine, rinse, later, repeat - or just give up because you can&#039;t define market segments?

Same goes with value props, vision statements, and all that stuff. It&#039;s all necessary and important - but it all takes time to develop; especially at the very outside of the idea existing itself. You can jump on this stuff soon or let it develop - in either case, it will need to change rapidly as you go.

But we can&#039;t forget how difficult it is to enter a new market where there are very few competitors to baseline (that you know about anyway), and your value prop is rough or isn&#039;t yet written down.

Of course, provided you aren&#039;t negatively impacting your product with silly and random features - I can tell you with 100% certainty I don&#039;t want to be the PM that goes in front of the board of directors and says, &quot;you know, we didn&#039;t do that $50k deal because I just didn&#039;t feel like we knew the value were were delivering to the client and therefore had no confidence in our price. Cost-plus pricing is wrong.&quot;

I want to be the PM that tells the Board and the VCs, &quot;we did the deal and we are continuing to evaluate our pricing strategy as we develop the product, identify the value prop and our market opportunities, and analyze competitors in the space. We are looking at X, Y, and Z. But yes, we have $50 in the bank with very limited development work to be done, and it will actually pay for us to fix 10 critical bugs.&quot;

Again, you take a risk, probably fail, dust yourself off, rinse, later, and repeat. If folks in the organization (from the CEO down) aren&#039;t willing to do that for every aspect at the outset (product, features, pricing strategies, overall strategies) then you are more than likely doomed from the get-go.

But maybe I&#039;m just really, really crazy :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree &#8211; there is definitely a gut-check factor I have used while doing cost-plus. It&#8217;s not entirely based on the hard numbers.</p>
<p>Also, allow me to clarify the scenario in which I&#8217;ve done this &#8211; a B2C product moving in to a B2B space by white-labeling the technology. Hell, we don&#8217;t even know yet who are customers will end-up being on either side other than in broad strokes&#8230;</p>
<p>I know, I know &#8211; I should probably be banned from Product Management for admitting it. But all witch hunts aside, do you run with an idea and see how things pan out, fail, refine, rinse, later, repeat &#8211; or just give up because you can&#8217;t define market segments?</p>
<p>Same goes with value props, vision statements, and all that stuff. It&#8217;s all necessary and important &#8211; but it all takes time to develop; especially at the very outside of the idea existing itself. You can jump on this stuff soon or let it develop &#8211; in either case, it will need to change rapidly as you go.</p>
<p>But we can&#8217;t forget how difficult it is to enter a new market where there are very few competitors to baseline (that you know about anyway), and your value prop is rough or isn&#8217;t yet written down.</p>
<p>Of course, provided you aren&#8217;t negatively impacting your product with silly and random features &#8211; I can tell you with 100% certainty I don&#8217;t want to be the PM that goes in front of the board of directors and says, &#8220;you know, we didn&#8217;t do that $50k deal because I just didn&#8217;t feel like we knew the value were were delivering to the client and therefore had no confidence in our price. Cost-plus pricing is wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>I want to be the PM that tells the Board and the VCs, &#8220;we did the deal and we are continuing to evaluate our pricing strategy as we develop the product, identify the value prop and our market opportunities, and analyze competitors in the space. We are looking at X, Y, and Z. But yes, we have $50 in the bank with very limited development work to be done, and it will actually pay for us to fix 10 critical bugs.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, you take a risk, probably fail, dust yourself off, rinse, later, and repeat. If folks in the organization (from the CEO down) aren&#8217;t willing to do that for every aspect at the outset (product, features, pricing strategies, overall strategies) then you are more than likely doomed from the get-go.</p>
<p>But maybe I&#8217;m just really, really crazy <img src='http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jim Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jim Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Steven: I couldn&#039;t have said it better myself! You danced around one important point - the folks in purchasing don&#039;t care about value, they only see price. However, if you&#039;ve been able to sell the higher levels on value, then often they&#039;ll tell purchasing to &quot;just buy it&quot; and then you are home free...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven: I couldn&#8217;t have said it better myself! You danced around one important point &#8211; the folks in purchasing don&#8217;t care about value, they only see price. However, if you&#8217;ve been able to sell the higher levels on value, then often they&#8217;ll tell purchasing to &#8220;just buy it&#8221; and then you are home free&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Hainews</title>
		<link>http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/pricing/why-product-mangers-need-to-know-that-cost-plus-pricing-is-wrong-wrong-wrong/comment-page-1#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Hainews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theaccidentalpm.com/?p=314#comment-223</guid>
		<description>In terms of product pricing, it&#039;s a conundrum.  As Dr. Jim says, you want to understand the value to the customer.  To do this, you have to know who the customer really is, and what they value. This introduces a couple of important thoughts. One - know the &quot;who.&quot; Who&#039;s the customer target and what does this customer type value? For example, if you&#039;re dealing with procurement people, they only know one thing and will beat you bloody if you don&#039;t fall in line with their expectations on price.  If however, you appeal the needs of the user or decision maker, you&#039;ve got a better chance.  This brings us to the second key point: The value proposition. The value prop. is the way to figure this out.  In a B2B world, if the product helps the customer in productivity, cost management, or revenue, and you can demonstrate this with basic arithmetic, you have a fighting chance.  If your value prop. matches the customers&#039; -  you&#039;re on third base.  If however, you&#039;re in a competitive situation, get out your calculator.   Remember, cost is always part of the equation. Just don&#039;t go to cost plus on your first pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of product pricing, it&#8217;s a conundrum.  As Dr. Jim says, you want to understand the value to the customer.  To do this, you have to know who the customer really is, and what they value. This introduces a couple of important thoughts. One &#8211; know the &#8220;who.&#8221; Who&#8217;s the customer target and what does this customer type value? For example, if you&#8217;re dealing with procurement people, they only know one thing and will beat you bloody if you don&#8217;t fall in line with their expectations on price.  If however, you appeal the needs of the user or decision maker, you&#8217;ve got a better chance.  This brings us to the second key point: The value proposition. The value prop. is the way to figure this out.  In a B2B world, if the product helps the customer in productivity, cost management, or revenue, and you can demonstrate this with basic arithmetic, you have a fighting chance.  If your value prop. matches the customers&#8217; &#8211;  you&#8217;re on third base.  If however, you&#8217;re in a competitive situation, get out your calculator.   Remember, cost is always part of the equation. Just don&#8217;t go to cost plus on your first pass.</p>
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